Creating a column in grade book with a running total of points from selected columns

[JulieBroadbent]

My campus just switched from Blackboard to Canvas. In Blackboard you could set up a column that would add up points from columns you individually selected to produce a running total that students could use to see how they were performing as they completed assignments. I can't figure out how to do this on Canvas. I can't use the automatically created columns Canvas creates because they look at all the columns and I need it to ignore some columns in grade book. I need to specify which scores are added into the total. Can anyone help?

[Chris_Hofer]

Hi @JulieBroadbent ...

You might be able to accomplish something similar to what you had in Blackboard by using Assignment Groups in your Canvas course.  You would first set up the Assignment Groups on your "Assignments" index page, and then you would put the assignments that you want to be in that running total within the Assignment Group that you had created.  Then, in your "Grades" page, you'd scroll all the way over to the right, and you'd have a new column with the same name as the Assignment Group name that you created.  For example, you might have an Assignment Group called "Quizzes" and another Assignment Group called "Essays".  Assignment Groups can also be weighted (so Quizzes might be 25% of the total grade and Essays might be 75% of the total grade).  Students can then go to their own "Grades" page and view this Assignment Group name that you created.

• How do I use the Gradebook? - Instructure Community (canvaslms.com) -- See "View Assignment Groups and Total Column".
• How do I add an assignment group in a course? - Instructure Community
• How do I move or reorder an assignment? - Instructure Community
• How do I view my grades in a current course? - Instructure Community (canvaslms.com) -- This is a Student Guide.  See the sections on "View Sidebar" and "View Points Grade Calculation" for screenshots of what this might look like.

Do you think this might work for your needs?  Keep us posted...thanks!

[GregObi]

As someone who is also a former Blackboard Ultra user, the Assignment group in Canvas grade book in no way does the same thing as a running total in Blackboard. The grade book tools are one of the most robust aspects of Blackboard. Canvas needs to retool quickly and provide this valuable tool in Canvas grade book.

[SusanNiemeyer]

I concur with @Chris_Hofer. I recommend that you create Assignment Groups. Then "weight" the Assignment Groups. When the students click on Grades, they should scroll down to the bottom of the list. There, they will see both the number of points they have earned for each Assignment Group as well as their percentage for that Group.

[GregObi]

Again you giving a different suggestion for a different issue. Canvas, Assignment groups are NOT do not achieve the same thing as a running total does in Blackboard. Someone in Canvas needs to listen and retool to make Canvas grade book more robust.

[jinnette_seneca]

Agreed. The running total functions from Bb served as an accumulative model rather than treating pending/yet-to-be completed assignments as a default 100% (which served to adjust/deduct points when graded).

The closest workaround I've found is to use individual column settings to use the "set default grade to 0 points" across the board at the beginning of the semester. Then as assignments are scored, you get a result that is something closer to a running total model. This needs to be clearly explained to students, particular those who have never seen their score grow FROM a total of zero to 'something' vs a total gradually DECLINING from 100% as assignments are graded.

[MTorregrossa1]

I totally agree here. The grade book in Canvas is a step down from Blackboard and is limiting my ability to design and grade my course the way I want. Its current settings are having a negative impact on my students and their confidence in the course. 

[JulieBroadbent]

Thank you for your suggestion. I tried this approach but it doesn't add up the total points automatically as I enter points for assignments. Did I set it up incorrectly?

[Ron_Bowman]

@JulieBroadbent -

I am not sure if it will work the way you want (you want to see the points/max points).  It partially works if the grade book is points based - you aren't using weighted assignment groups.  If you are using weighted assignment groups then you will only see the percentage. 

If you are using a points based grade book, you will still see a percent in the assignment group name column, but if you click on a score there you will see the points out of max points displayed.

As far as I know there is no way to just display total points obtained so far for an assignment group.  I believe this topic has been discussed previously and may have been put into idea conversations as well.

Ron

[MichelleKistler]

I'm a little late to the party, but I am experiencing the same dilemma (we are also a crossover from Blackboard, where I could easily just have a column that was a running total of other columns, without the individual columns tallying into the final grade - only the running total column pulled in, which is what I wanted). So here is my situation:

I give up to 50 points of participation for the term. These points can be gained on any day, and the only thing I want to pull in is the total column.

So, making individual assignments for every day - where some students will end up with points and others will not - is not what I am wanting to do.

I want to track individual submissions, yes, but I only want the "running total out of 50" to pull into their final grade. 

It seems the only way to do this in Canvas is by hand by creating a "running total" assignment and tallying by hand, which is very cumbersome in a mass lecture class, and confusing to students as well if it results in multiple individual columns (where many will have no points) as the means of tracking the participation on any given day.

[Ron_Bowman]

@MichelleKistler -

I am not sure I follow the procedure that you want.  

on this part

I give up to 50 points of participation for the term. These points can be gained on any day, and the only thing I want to pull in is the total column.

So, making individual assignments for every day - where some students will end up with points and others will not - is not what I am wanting to do.

I want to track individual submissions, yes, but I only want the "running total out of 50" to pull into their final grade. 

---

How are you determining the points awarded?  I am assuming that because it is participation that you note who has participated in class and you then want to add those points to a running total.   Without having used blackboard, I do not know how you did it there, but I cannot see a way to add points to a total column where you don't have some assignment to put those points in that would then be added to the total column.  You could have a single assignment where you have to manually go in and update the point total on that assignment for a student as they earn them.  I.e. current score is 10, and they earned 2 participation points today, so change it to 12.  

Knowing the procedure you used in blackboard may help with coming up with a work around in Canvas.  

Ron

---

[MichelleKistler]

Hi Ron,

"Back in the days of Blackboard," we could select certain columns that would automatically create a separate "running total" column from columns we specified. It was a true "running total" column - we could mark it as such by selecting an option when creating it. 

In Blackboard, we could make it so that only the points from the running total column would pull into the course total while still recordkeeping the other points within the LMS.

Additionally, the auto-tallied running total could be selected as the only column visible to students. That is, we did not have to have all columns visible to students in order to enter points (Canvas requires them to be "published/visible" in order to enter points.) We could also specify to drop scores from the other columns going into the running total column. (Kind of like you can do with Assignment Groups in Canvas, except the dropping of scores was related to the running total column rather than the course total.)

As an aside: In Blackboard, the option to "hide/unhide" grading columns from student view was a handy class management feature, especially with very large classes of students. There is always a certain subset of students that, rather than listen to explanations in class or read the syllabus, they send emails about "not getting points that day." Well, it's because they weren't in class to participate. These are the students who "act before thinking" when they get Canvas updates on every move I make in the gradebook. This is not a big deal if the total number of students is small, like 50-90. But with a few hundred students and only one TA, it makes a palpable logistical difference. (E.g., 10% of 300 is 30 students, vs. 10% of 50 is 5 students.) 

---

"How are you determining the points awarded? I am assuming that because it is participation that you note who has participated in class and you then want to add those points to a running total."

Correct. 

With the way Canvas is now, however, it does not appear there is an option for a running total column that also pulls into the course total.

---

"You could have a single assignment where you have to manually go in and update the point total on that assignment for a student as they earn them.  I.e. current score is 10, and they earned 2 participation points today, so change it to 12." 

Correct. However, this is labor intensive in mass lecture classes with frequent points, which is why an auto-tallied running total column would be nice. I want to keep a record of both the points they earned on any given day as well as the running total, with only the running total pulling into the total course grade.

To be clear, by "running total" I mean that different students will be at different points of completion on their "journey toward 50 points" over the course of the semester. It has implications for how the student's grade appears along the way as well. It is also why hidden columns with points were nice (less confusion among students means fewer knee-jerk reaction emails for me).

For the time being, my workaround is creating individual assignment columns for "any day" participation points, but selecting (via the checkbox) "Do not count toward course total" for these assignments, while also maintaining, by hand, an additional running total "assignment." This method is particularly confusing to the subset of students mentioned earlier, because all columns are visible by individual days, so they think they somehow "missed points," when in actuality, they can just get their points on some other day. The running total "assignment" is included in course total. 

The option I and other professors seem to be looking for amounts to a valuable time-saving measure that is particularly useful for mass-lecture classes with little classroom support (i.e., TAs).

-Michelle

EDIT: Another thing I noticed is that the "running total assignment" I just created requires that I enter a total amount of points. This is particularly problematic in terms of what it does to the way their course grade looks. It seems I have to set it to not count toward their final grade until the end of the term, at which point I will need to change it to counting toward their final grade. If I set it to zero and include it in their course total, Canvas would register it as "extra credit," falsely inflating their grade. If I set it to 50 and count it toward the course total, then everyone would have an F for participation so far, creating mass panic. So, the only viable solution seems to also keep this running total assignment set as "not counting toward course total" and then changing it at the end of the term. I have explained this to the students in the description, but will brace for the fallout at the end of the term from that subset of students.

[Ron_Bowman]

@MichelleKistler -

Great write up.  As you know, what you want can't be done.  What you describe in the grade book is what we could do in WebCT (which blackboard bought).

The only way to remotely do what you want requires a lot of extra effort on your part (or your TA).  In my opinion - of the systems I used WebCT had the best gradebook - mainly because it was like a poor mans excel.  There are probably reasons of some sort as to why Canvas can't make their gradebook do what you describe, and we will never know those reasons.

Ron

[NathanDorn]

The solutions listed here really should not be necessary.  I appreciate all the attempts.  However, there is no reason CANVAS can't create an option for a running unweighted total points column (an option to display it).  The way the assignments and tests are organized and added up (assuming weightings and calculating percentages) is awkward and leaves the students unclear about their grade and always having to ask the instructor.  Any other solution is either A) requiring all instructors to use percentages or B) a workaround that shouldn't have to be done (learned, relearned, manipulated).  CANVAS just isn't providing good support to the end user in this area.

[GregObi]

I am once again calling on the Canvas Tech team to improve the grade book by allowing instructors to have the ability to create a manually calculated column. Instructors should have the choice to either display this column as a percentage, points, or weighted averages. Also, the column should allow instructors to decide what other graded assignments add to this column's total. This is a way of making sure that the expected points from graded assignments align with the gradebook total column. The more I work with Canvas the more I see the value of this tool.

I volunteer (at no pay) to work with the Canvas tech team to achieve this vital tool in the grade book. Right now the canvas gradebook is completely wonky and even worse when you download it  - it has so many unnecessary, might I say useless, columns!!!