[Gradebook Settings] Make late policy affect only attempts submitted after the due date/time

[kowens]

Currently in the New Gradebook, instructors can set the gradebook so that late penalties are automatically deducted. It is unfortunate that in multiple-attempt quizzes for which only the highest-scored attempt is to count, penalties for late submissions can adversely affect scores from attempts that were on time.

For example, suppose a quiz has multiple attempts, and only the highest score is preserved in the gradebook. The instructor allows late attempts with an automatic deduction 25% per day. Prior to the deadline, a student earns a kept score of 75%. When the student attempts the quiz again a day late, he again earns a raw score of 75%. Instead of deducting 25% from the late submission, the gradebook deducts 25% from the kept score. Thus, even though student's highest attempt is the 75% earned before the deadline, his score is recorded as only 50%.

So, I am asking that late penalties apply individually to attempts. Once the attempt is adjusted automatically accordingly, then the gradebook should select or calculate the kept score based upon whatever rule has been set up (such as highest attempt).

[jacob_white]

Can't believe they "shelved" the idea of fixing what is obviously a bug!  When I select "Score to Keep: Highest" then an existing grade should never be replaced by a lower one.  THAT IS WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN.  This isn't an issue with some 3rd party software, this is the Canvas Quiz not working with the Canvas gradebook. 

[morrisj1]

You nailed it, jw2546; this is a simple order of operations issue that should have been fixed long ago, but Canvas apparently can't be bothered to fix errors in their code, no matter how egregious they are.  This is also not an isolated incident, Canvas's standard response to obvious errors and design flaws that seriously compromise the functionality of their product is to take forever to even acknowledge them and then refuse to do anything about them.  Considering the amount of time that my colleagues and I waste every semester working around issues that Canvas simply won't address, I wouldn't be surprised if Canvas's days are numbered on our campus.  

[pcatasti]

I have just finished a chat with an annoyed customer service representative who tried to convince me that this is the correct way to implement it.

I agree with you that to penalize the overall assignment for an attempt submitted late on a score already earned on a previous attempt submitted within the deadline is stupid.

But Canvas seems particularly obtuse about this because it will be a long day in hell when the developers listen to anything discussed on this community forum.

[Renee_Carney]

@pcatasti 

Are you seeing something different than what is described in this issue that was resolved? https://community.canvaslms.com/t5/Known-Issues/New-Gradebook-Late-Policies-and-Multiple-Quiz-Attemp... 

[pcatasti]

@Renee_Carney 

Yes, I have an assignment set to Highest Attempt and unlimited attempts, so that a student can keep practicing on it for the remainder of the course past the due date.

However, regardless of whether a past due date new attempt has a higher score or not of the Highest Attempt obtained within the due date, Canvas still dings the assignment score, as per the late policy.

This is contrary to what's stated in the shared document.

[Renee_Carney]

@pcatasti 

We did just open this idea conversation back up, however I'm not sure we'll keep it open.  We're still going through some internal discussions to see if we continue to handle this through Known Issues or as an Idea Conversation.  This is more for our own internal tracking of the feature function but just wanted to be transparent in what's going on. 

No matter how we continue to handle the communication of this in the Community I also want to communicate that our engineering team has an open ticket on this.  I don't have any more information I can share publicly, but wanted you to know it is on their radar (and we completely agree with you - this needs fixed). 

[bernhard_lohkam]

It is not just the applying of late policy but marking of the attempt as being late which is an issue. If the assignment has been passed on time then it should never be marked as late in the Grade book. Irrespective of what happens afterwards and which scores are to be kept.

Scoring of course can be debated, but I am disappointed (once again) with Instructure's handling with respect to user's wishes and ideas. After all we are the educators who know what is best for our students learning and we are customers who pay the developers' bills. At least there should be an option to "Apply late policy after passing", "Keep (pass) score before due date", "Keep open after passing without late penalty" or something along these lines. There may be countless possibilities and options how to deal with this (although the standard ones mentioned here so far are obvious), so a simple option (as outlined previously) would be a start and shouldnt take a developer more time to fix than us customers spend on complaining about it.

[ajw13]

Dear Canvas Support,

Can you please skip the normal, "Hey, let's see how many votes we get" method for making a change and just approve a change to the grade book that records the highest of allowed multiple attempts submitted before deadline?  As it currently operates, if I allow two attempts with a deadline and a student submits the second attempt late, the grade book auto records a zero.  To correct this the student has to notify me then I have to manually edit the grade.  In a class of 180 this is not only time consuming but the grading rule is inane.  So please, just make the change!

Andy

[morrisj1]

I completely agree, Andy @ajw13.  Canvas has known about this programming error for years, and they are fully aware of the havoc it is wreaking for teachers trying to use Canvas quizzes, and yet they have still taken no action to fix it.  In the meantime, we've gotten contradictory responses from Canvas support, everything from claims that a fix is right around the corner to it's too difficult to fix, so we're not going to.  I don't know if this is a matter of poor communication between various levels of Canvas support, or some kind of a bait and switch strategy to endlessly string their customers along.  Whatever the reason, I've given up on them ever fixing this error.  I've never known a company more unwilling to fix errors in their code or one that cares less about the quality of their product, and I can only hope our university finds a better alternative to Canvas the next time the LMS discussion comes up.  

Jerry