[ARCHIVED] new Zoom LTI?

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

hi everyone!

We were just made aware that the Canvas Zoom App is being deprecated (Nov 2018) and there is a new Enhanced LTI they want us to use.

Configuring LTI with Canvas – Zoom Help Center 

Has anyone installed and use this new Zoom LTI? It looks to NOT use a Dev Key and only use LTI (no API calls??)

If you are using it - what functionality does it have right now beyond putting a link/button to Zoom (website proper) which just embeds Zoom into the Canvas frame?

[aaron_bahmer]

Wow! Thanks for posting this question. I had not yet heard about the new LTI for Zoom. Since we are just starting with both Canvas and Zoom for our fall semester starting next week, I took the leap and set up this LTI in parallel with the previous one.

The first difference I see (aside from ease of setup) is that Zoom becomes a course navigation item rather than just an "external tool" that you can add to modules. To me, this makes perfect sense because it puts access to class meetings right out in front. Note that you can still add Zoom to a module as an external tool.

What does it look like?

I don't see any functional differences from the LTI we installed in May this year. The instructor has access to create a meeting, view upcoming meetings, view past meetings, access cloud recordings, and access the personal meeting room. Student view is a similar interface with options to view upcoming meetings and previous meetings, including links to any cloud recordings.

I'm going to delete the other LTI right now! Doing so "broke the link" for any Zoom module items created with the former LTI. Since such items really don't have any content, it was easy enough to delete and rebuild -- though, I might reconsider not bothering with a rebuild since the Zoom course navigation item is more handy, anyway. I guess it depends on your course structure.

I assume all else related to the Zoom meetings themselves is exactly the same, since that happens in the Zoom app anyway.

Happy Zooming!

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

Thanks for posting! Since we don't know what the old app functions like (we haven't installed it) it's been a bit confusing. Their help material does not include any screenshots/directions from the faculty/meeting-creator view for the "Enhanced LTI". It's good to hear there is more functionality than just embedding the Zoom page into the Canvas frame.

Question - I've discovered that the integration might not be connecting through and tossing the 'User Not Found' error because our Zoom accounts are using the "email" format:  netid@dartmouth.edu where Canvas uses fname.m.lastname@dartmouth   Both are functional emails. In Canvas - our SISID is the netid@dartmouth.edu format.

Anyone else have a similar issue? Can the LTI get mapped to the SISID field? There aren't options in the Zoom admin panel under Integrations to customize it.

Thanks!

[aaron_bahmer]

We have the Zoom SSO feature turned on that allows account provisioning from Canvas. That is, the first time a faculty members accesses Zoom in Canvas, it builds their Zoom account using the default (I assume) Canvas email address. We have two mail domains, and I don't recall if we made arrangements with Zoom to recognize them both, but it does for us.

[phanley]

I just got out of a meeting with them - ask your rep, there is a method for specifying for which email is chosen by the Zoom integration, but we cut the conversation short because we keep everything eppn in our instance so user's email addresses remain stable.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

As an update --- we are told that with their new build coming out on December 15th, that institutions will be able to specify custom variables through which to send the email. YAY!

[james_wallerste]

I am not a Canvas admin but an instructor teaching "Web Development" courses in Canvas. 

I want to hold online office hours and have evaluated what seem the two best options;

* Built-in "Canvas Conferencing" (based on the BigBlueButton software)

* Zoom

I found that the HTML5 client for "Canvas Conferencing" still isn't ready. Only the legacy Flash client has all features. I don't want to use anything that requires all students to have Flash on their device...now that we're in 2019 (:

The potential downside of Zoom involves every student needing to establish a Zoom account (and free Zoom accounts have a 40 minute time limit), but Zoom's always worked great for me.

I just read thru the posts on this thread. Sounds like the Zoom LTI has gone thru a lot of change this past year. 

I just searched for Zoom Apps in my Canvas container. Only thing that came up is a Zoom LTI by CirQLive. I was going to push the install button but thought I'd ask if anyone on this thread has experience with it. Looks like the only Zoom LTI that's been made available by our Canvas admins.

[lekern]

The limitation of 40 minutes does not apply if the presenter has a Pro

account. We use Zoom through the LTI integration very successfullly for

discussion sections and office hours, as well as occasional lecture

sessions.

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 10:23 AM james.wallerstedt@gcccd.edu <

[phanley]

“The potential downside of Zoom involves every student needing to establish a Zoom account (and free Zoom accounts have a 40 minute time limit), but Zoom's always worked great for me.”

Participants don’t need a zoom account as far as I know, only the host. So you should be able to put the link to your personal meeting room somewhere in the course set to open in a new tab — I think that will “just work” when students click it

[Boekenoogen]

Our Campus is looking at the new integration for Zoom. If I hear anything, I will be happy to let the community know.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

hi all! We got the new Zoom "Enhanced LTI" working. We DO NOT have the the Canvas LTI (old deprecated Nov 18 app) installed. We *do not* have the Dev Key install (old app) and only have the Enhanced LTI installed. It was described as 'pure LTI' and there are no API calls (which makes sense, no Dev Key or Access Tokens).

We were told there are more features coming in the fall, including calendar features, etc. that will use the API and will need the Dev Key install. 

Here is what we found:

• Zoom shows on the course menu
  • Not shown by default
  • Professor needs to make it visible in Navigation settings
• Zoom can show in modules and assignments as an External Tool and has the same action/features as the button on the course menu.
• Clicking Zoom on course menu (or in module or assignment):
  • Faculty
    • Logs in user to Zoom
    • Shows user limited Zoom panel
    • Can Schedule a Meeting
      • Scheduled meeting then immediately shows up in Zoom app and Dartmouth.zoom.us for user
    • Start meetings
    • See meetings NOT scheduled via Canvas
    • See Recordings
    • See Past Meetings
    • Start meeting triggers Zoom app to open/use (then features of Zoom app available)
  • Student
    • Logs in user to Zoom
    • Shows user limited Zoom panel
    • Sees meetings scheduled by professor of course ONLY
    • DOES NOT see meetings scheduled by self (using d.zoom.us or Zoom app)
    • See Recordings of course meetings ONLY
    • See Past Meetings of course meetings ONLY
    • Cannot Schedule a meeting (nor do Zoom app or d.zoom.us meetings show up)
    • Join a meeting triggers Zoom app to open/use (then features of Zoom app available)
• There are not yet any calendar features
• Students cannot schedule meetings nor see any non-course specific meetings

[tvashaw]

We use Zoom at CCSNH works great. Faculty are now creating their Zoom meetings in their Canvas course, it links to the course calendar and also puts a link on the syllabus page. You can start the meeting right in Canvas also. I do believe that you still need the meeting client software but that will install on first use.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

hi Tammy (seems I can't tag you?) 

FYI that those features are in the old Canvas App for Zoom. That will be deprecated in November 2018 (check the Zoom help pages and the Integrations pane in Zoom admin panel).

The new Zoom LTI is not yet fully featured and does not integrate with the Calendar or Announcements. You can see what it does in my above post. It's a bit, clunky, in a way because students have an extremely limited view (cannot see meetings other than the course, while instructors can) and co-instructors can not automatically see each others meetings (they need to be added as a cohost/owner in Zoom).

We were told October for the rest of the new LTI to be built out with all the expected features. We were told not to install the Canvas App for Zoom, that, will stop functioning.

Another admin at another institution we spoke to said that when they switched over to the new LTI, all the prior Zoom links in the course were broken. Makes sense, it's a different app. It doesn't look like Zoom prepared for a seamless switchover, so that's something to talk to your Zoom CSM about.

[tvashaw]

Ok, we just went live June 1st so I thought maybe we had new features. I just reached out to our Chancellor’s office IT. Thanks for posting this.

[tvashaw]

Not sure if this is helpful but this came from Zoom not Canvas

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201363323

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

Right - that is their current help/support file --- the app that connects with the Calendar and announcements is the 'Basic LTI' (Canvas App for Zoom - built by Zoom) which will be gone November 2018. The new one is the Enhanced LTI which is not yet fully featured and does not have calendar features and is wonky in some other ways, and, they say it will be more robust for October.

To put context to my comments - I am the Canvas Operations Lead (uber admin) for my institution and the one setting up Zoom with the rest of our team.

Yes - good to put it on your uber Canvas admin's radar --- as --- in our explorations we found out that some folks found out by chance that things were changing and were not notified by Zoom, or, the word didn't make it to the right people.

I'm not sure Zoom's plan for yanking the other LTI completely, as, existing meeting links might break (unless they fix that by then)

[JACOBSEN_C]

Yes, a little heads-up from Zoom would have been nice.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

I've pinged my CSM to spread the words amongst the CSM team...I'd hate for anyone to get surprised a bit later this fall.

[tvashaw]

I notified the CCSNH Chancellor’s office IT too

[phanley]

Clint Jacobsen wrote:

Yes, a little heads-up from Zoom would have been nice.

This is my biggest headache with the LTI system - I've found in general that vendors have a hard time communicating big changes (especially deprecations) effectively, but I don't know why.  My guess is that LTI integrations are seen as "plumbing" and so they don't get the same attention from PR/communications folks that new features do, and so it seems like there's always one or two surprise broken apps at the start of every semester.

There are some exceptions, of course - Turning Technologies has been super proactive in letting us know about their upcoming switch to a new LTI launch mechanism (like gave us a year's notice, and were very persistent about contacting people around Campus until they got in touch with my group).

[JACOBSEN_C]

After installing the new LTI, have your instructors reported any missing calendar events?

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

hi Clint --- the new Zoom LTI doesn't have the calendar features yet (like the old app). A colleague at another institution who had the old app and now the new LTI, commented that all existing Zoom things break. I'd guess that includes calendar events created by that Zoom app (?)

[phanley]

Important update - 

Zoom has released a Pro update that seems to supersede the "Enhanced LTI" 

I'd advise asking your Zoom rep about it, but here are the links:

Add the Zoom Pro LTI to your instance via the Zoom marketplace: App Marketplace 

Getting Started:  Getting started with LTI Pro 

Canvas install: LTI Pro for Canvas -

The most recent update added: 

• Auto provision a Zoom user without requiring a confirmation email
  • This will require a trusted domain be setup for the account by support
• Canvas calendar and conversations
  • Post links to Zoom meetings to Canvas calendar
  • Edit and Delete Meetings from Canvas calendar
• Custom LTI attribute to set LTI user’s email address can now be configured
• LTI launch error message and link can be now customized
• Linking previous meetings for students to Zoom cloud recording can now be enabled or disabled
• Auto provisioning a Zoom user new supports Corp and Pro licenses

[tdelillo]

 @phanley - Are you replacing your LTI with the new LTI Pro? We asked our rep today, and got some confusing info about whether we need to delete the old LTI and then configure the new one, and what that would do to existing scheduled meetings and recordings.

[phanley]

You don't have to delete the enhanced LTI for the Pro version - I was able to have both in one course and I didn't see a problem per se. 

But we are just beginning a pilot semester with Zoom (we currently use Webex enterprise-wide), and since the LTI was installed on a course-by-course basis, I just replaced all of the apps today (our rep was clear that the enhanced LTI is no longer being developed).

[kmallen]

Zoom has some documentation about migrating from the old LTI to LTI Pro: Migrate to LTI Pro - Admin - LTI Pro. It looks like you can submit a support ticket and get help with Zoom with the migration.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

I was happy to see the calendar in the update to LTI Pro! FYI - if you want the calendar features then you will need to use the Developer Key install options. Which, aren't in their help guide yet but if you are familiar it's fairly obvious what to do in the Zoom marketplace panel. There are different layers of settings and management.

[JACOBSEN_C]

How seamless or difficult was it moving form the enhanced integration and this Pro with the Canvas calendar feature?

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

We never installed the prior LTIs b/c they were features missing we wanted and some other oddities. So - LTIPro is a fresh install.

My own process would be to use Beta and Test to figure out what happens, potentially close to the refresh date to get more play-time.

One of my colleagues at a different northeast institution noted that going from the old deprecated LTI to the LTI Enhanced caused existing Zoom events to fly away. Maybe they fixed that?

[pchaney]

The original LTI that used a developer key was problematic because it gave Zoom too much access and had some Canvas admins nervous about what Zoom could do or privacy concerns. We did not use this LTI for that reason. Recently our Zoom rep let us know there was a new "Enhanced LTI" which did not use developer keys. We checked out the documentation, and the Enhanced LTI seemed to be a pretty standard LTI configuration, so we installed it.

Shortly afterwards, there was mention of another newer "Pro LTI" which claimed to have a lot of new capabilities. When looking at the Pro LTI documentation, we noticed a few strange things. First, you have to download and install the "Pro LTI App" from the Zoom Marketplace in order to get the LTI Key and Shared Secret to install the Pro LTI. 

There was already a Zoom admin interface which we had used to generate LTI keys and secrets for the Enhanced LTI, so we were puzzled why Zoom couldn't just add another page in that same interface to generate Pro LTI keys and secrets? Why make a separate Pro LTI App that has to be downloaded and installed just to get an LTI key and secret?  Does anyone know of another vendor's LTI that you need to install a local App just to get an LTI key and secret?  

Before installing the Pro LTI App, you have to agree to permissions that you didn't need to before with the Enhanced LTI.

We've also been given multiple documentation links which has been confusing, though I think this is probably because not everyone at Zoom is on the same page. Just from past experience with dozens of other well-integrated vendor LTIs,  I don't see why we need to install a local "App" that forces you to agree to permissions to view user information. After the earlier Zoom developer key issue, I think Zoom needs to explain why they need this permission and exactly how Zoom would use this information.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

hi Paul - thanks for that info! We're currently trying to get things squared away with Zoom and the Pro LTI. Right now they can't figure out why my admin status in Zoom can't configure it. We see the Manage tab where you can get all the key/secret info and put in the dev key. Maybe something has changed since they first launched LTI Pro?

Can you  post the links that they provided you? My next step is to have them outline their API calls as we'll want to scope their dev key. Any info you have on that would be great and put us ahead of things.

[phanley]

Getting started with LTI Pro 

Many of the links in that document go to a generic page - but many of them are page anchors so just scroll through the document.

The link to the canvas installation guide works.

[pchaney]

Unfortunately the links Zoom sent me went to the "Oops!" page, and to make matters worse, both the rep and tech kept copying each other's links when I requested ones that worked! Once you have the LTI Key and Shared Shared secret, installing the LTI is pretty standard. You decide which account you want it in (we had a Pro seat limit, so we put it in a sub-account, and did not choose Auto Provision). After some searching, I found this link which shows the installation process: https://zoomappdocs.docs.stoplight.io/guides/canvas 

I would send this link to your rep and ask if this is the latest - the only thing that would change in the install would be in the XML you paste (they may have updated it).  Hope this helps.

[phanley]

Yeah, their docs are a mess right now - I put in a support ticket about it (actually more just suggesting a note about the Pro LTI on their older LTI doc pages), and they responded that they were aware that the docs were a little bit of a mess right now, but that they hope it will all be clearer soon. A Sales Engineer told me separately that he's been attending meetings where they're working on the docs, so hopefully everything will be clearer in a week or so. 

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

I wasn't told that, but instead got a run-around and incomplete answers about the guides, that, they had everything they needed, etc.

It does seem the CSMs are out of the loop on many things. I think, honestly, that we've been spoiled by our awesome Instructure CSM who is always on the ball, finds us answers, connects us to the right people. My expectations are high!

We're still waiting on them to figure out why no one but the single Owner (you can have only 1 Owner uber admin) can see the Marketplace set up and configurations. So, we're not even set up yet and trying it out.

[pchaney]

Eventually they admitted it was a mess right now.  They were selling the new Pro features to some of our instructors in December, and the instructors were hot to have it implemented. After going through the process of implementing this, Zoom didn't think things out well, and it was clear they were scrambling.  They eventually confirmed that the Enhanced LTI and Pro LTI had about the same functionality right now, not what they promised, but those features were to follow. Hope they learn from this, it's a pretty good product. One thing different in our case is they suggested our college's Zoom admin make me an admin on that system. I said I didn't need that, I just need the key and secret. I may have run into the same situation as Adrienne had I been made a second Zoom admin.

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

In our case, we want the Calendar/Scheduler features so need to go the Developer Key route. As such, it's our policy we don't send those by email, put them out there, give them to anyone that doesn't need that level of knowledge. So - I need to be the one to install/place into the Zoom Marketplace, etc. We're also working out the custom email variable since our default email field in Canvas isn't what Zoom is using as the email. So, I need to play with those options as well until we get it right.

But - until we suss out all the security (how the Dev Key is stored, is it obscured once entered into the Zoom Marketplace, etc.) we aren't installing anything.

[pchaney]

That's confusing - we were told that the latest version of Pro LTI does not require a developer key anymore. From what I been able to piece together, Zoom has had 3 versions of the Pro LTI so far, with the latest version not requiring the use of a developer key. We aren't using a developer key. 

[Adrienne_J_Gaut]

The first release did not, and, calendar/conversations were not included. In the December (2nd release) Calendar was added, which requires a dev key install to work (so they say).

It's in this help guide, and, I saw the settings screens from the Owner/admin view when we were first figuring out what we needed.

LTI Pro for Canvas - 

[phanley]

It looks like the documentation has been edited/fixed now: Getting Started with LTI Pro - Welcome - LTI Pro